Rumor: Windows 7 RC Build to be released publicly April 10, 2009
Recent rumors about the beginning of development into the Windows 7 RC Branch caused a lot of excitement everywhere. Rumors about build 7048 being developed were determined false yesterday when Paul received an email from Sinofsky yesterday confirming that the latest build is actually Build 7046.
However, Neowin was informed today by a trusted source within Microsoft that the RC will not be ready for February. Windows 7 RC is currently being tested and development is on track. If everything goes well, the RC will be publicly released April 10, 2009.
Microsoft hasn’t shared too much information with us on RC development, but in the midst of all this buzz, Steve Sinofsky seems to have come out of his shell to explain a few things to the public. Sinofsky provided a few facts in his email with Paul from Geeksmack:
We have received an amazing amount of feedback, many suggestions for new features too, during the betaover 500,000 suggestions just from the Send Feedback button (which is only one of many feedback mechanisms).
Sinofsky notes at the end of his email that there are hundreds of changes made based on the suggestions received. He also clarified that Microsoft was on track with the development of Windows 7.
He also told ArsTechnica that Windows 7 RC will be available broadly to everyone, and not just Technet and MSDN subscribers.
There is no guarantee as to whether the April 10th date will be met. Although Microsoft has been quite silent on its development with the RC for a while, Sinofsky’s confirmation on a couple of facts is a good sign that Microsoft is still listening to our feedback and concerns.
We will continue to update you on any progress made regarding Windows 7 Release Candidate. You can Subscribe to our RSS feed or by Email Subscription to stay updated.
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Tags: windows 7, windows 7 RC, windows 7 rc build, windows 7 release candidate
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39 Responses to “Rumor: Windows 7 RC Build to be released publicly April 10, 2009”
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If this happens then Id like to draw your attention to comments I made at the beginning of January. I was convinced Windows 7 would be sped up for two reasons:
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1/ MS cannot afford to have a late 2009/early 2010 release of Windows, due to the fact that IMO they are being damaged daily with people whose experience of Vista has caused them to look at alternatives. Do MS want another 10 months of that?
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2/ I believe MS looks at Canonicals offering as the biggest threat (Linux side) to them. 9.04 is rumored to be a very good update, and general feeling from people who have switched over to Ubuntu seems to be one of satisfaction. 9.04 is coming out end of April. Does that worry MS?
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Shame Novell couldnt corner the FOSS market like Canonical did, maybe if they hadnt been so quick to sign up with Microsoft, they would be in Canonicals position now. Since I believe I will be correct about my Windows 7 prediction, heres another one for you:
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Microsoft deal with Redhat was much sweeter than the one Novell had, could it be that Microsoft offers a competitor in a prop distro a better deal to further weaken Novells position? Could it be that the next move will be an aquisition of Novell by MS?
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I predict Novell will be under Redmond ownership before the end of the year.
What is FOSS? Windows 7 should be released this year and it seems very possible. The upgrade program leaks and the suspected RC dates as well as the Beta expiry date show strongly we should be seeing a Q4 2008 release.
If it does not, I think it’s fair to put the blame on Sinofsky’s development style in not issuing multiple Betas to the public.
Besides, Windows 7 is a fine-tuned version of Vista and does not include any enormous drastic change that should delay the OS any longer.
*EDIT*
When I said draw attention to comments, I was refering to those I made on Microsoft Watch.
Haha, I’m sure I’ve seen you post once or twice here before
FOSS – Free and Open Source Software.
I take it then that you have never used it. I hope that was a joke, since a tech blog that doesnt know the term seems a little silly to me.
Novell’s deal with Microsoft (IMO) enabled Novell to sponsor the MONO project, which in my opinion is the way Microsoft is trying to make proprietary inroads in the Open Source world.
For the record, I dont believe Ive posted here before, however if I have it will be under the Goblin handle, unlike the Pro-Microsoft posters who Joe Wilcox had to delete off his site (for using underhanded and vulgar tactics) I only post on one handle, and mainly on Microsoft Watch.
If I may, Id like to ask you to justify your comment of “Besides, Windows 7 is a fine-tuned version of Vista”
and ask, is that fair on the Vista users? Shouldnt that have been fine tuned before asking them for more money? It seems to me that when Vista was released, the buying public acted as beta testers to iron out the bugs for Enterprise, since firms (IMO) have not been exactly speedy in adopting Vista.
Will the same be for Windows 7, is the public going to expected to suffer issues (like with Vista) until a new SP is released?
and what about the Vista downgrade case? If this goes against Microsoft, then they could find that like the Xbox 360 and its numerous hardware failures, they make very little money on the venture. Do shareholders have confidence in these results?
Haha I do know what FOSS is of course, in Canada we just say Open-Source.
I guess I was a bit careless with my comment, Windows 7 does have numerous new features and enhancements.
Windows Vista is not a bad OS at all provided that you have the appropriate hardware and installed SP1. I have been using Vista for 2 years and it has never been much of a problem for me.
Quote “In Canada we just say Open-Source.”
I think Marcel Gagne over on WFTLBYTES may disagree. However its a moot point.
Really the comment of
“Windows Vista is not a bad OS at all provided that you have the appropriate hardware and installed SP1″
Suggests to me that users didnt have a particularly good experience of Vista until SP was released, and what faith will the off the shelf buyer have that the same will not be repeated for Windows 7?
We saw the Vista PR pre release, it was going to be great. Instead, in my opinion it is the main reason why Microsoft finds itself in the position it does now.
IMO the days of Windows dominating (certainly the home market) are over. You have millions of happy XP owners who have a stable OS that performs and functions as they expect. Whilst MS was engaging in the console wars (which I dont think can be argued have been lost to Nintendo) they were helping destroy the one thing that (IMO) was the “hook” for the home user to purchase Windows (that being games) I think it fair to say in the average household the PC is the net surfer and emailer, and the console is the games machine. The PC (IMO) is not the definetive gaming platform it once was and you just have to look at how much space is dedicated to PC games in your local store to see that.
Speaking of games, since the Wine project has been tackling it with its replacment Windows API, we’ve seen Linux actually performing better with titles such as the COD series and World of Warcraft to name a few. If people are happy with XP or a distro running Wine, what on earth can Windows 7 do that they cannot already do?
Looking at the speed in which Enterprise has adopted Vista, coupled with the numerous governments moving to FOSS, what exactly are the benefits for Windows 7? Microsoft can even keep people loyal to its browser, with Firefox eating away at its userbase and now since the EU has ruled against IE soley being bundled with Windows in the name of anti-trust, what exactly is Microsoft offering that cant be done by others, (IMO) better, and in FOSS cases free?
I think you are pretty dead on with your points in your comment.
Quote: Whilst MS was engaging in the console wars (which I dont think can be argued have been lost to Nintendo)
I’m not sure what you meant in your brackets but even if Xbox 360′s console sales lag behind Nintendo, I don’t think they have lost the “console war” that they wanted to take part in. Nintedo’s Wii is not the same kind of console Xbox 360 and PS3 in, so personally, I would not include Wii in the same console war.
Xbox 360′s gamer audience is much different, and their users subscribe to the Xbox Live service and download many priced items from the marketplace. Microsoft makes a ton of money off that as well.
I have thought about XP vs New Windows OSes for a while and you are right, what exactly is there in Vista and 7 that is so phenomenal that you must buy it? Nothing really. But eventually users may have to shift to Windows 7 due to discontinued Microsoft support and software support. There is DX11 on Vista and Win7 for the gamers.
However, UAC and Homegroup might prove to be quite useful to businesses. I have not taken a look at them, but I know Windows 7 introduces a couple of new security and IT enhancements in enterprise. I wrote an article about UAC here: http://windows7center.com/windows-7-news/why-uac-works-and-what-it-needs-to-improve-on-in-windows-7/
Note that I am no security or IT expert so my suggestions and opinions are based off the fact that I am an avid computer user and somewhat of a tech enthusiast.
As to your comments about Linux, I cannot say much because I have never used Linux except Ubuntu for 2 days. Glad to see that games can run well on Linux.
Also, if FOSS is a common term I’m surprised I have never heard of it xD, but I surely know what Open Source and Free is.
Ths thing is, if you need to get Windows APIs just to g ame on Linux, then it just defeats the purpose of wanting to move to another OS.
Remember that not everybody has the time or desire to experiment with other OSes. They just want something that:
- has drivers immediately ready for their hardware.
- has a whole list of software that is available for the platform
- hassle free and simple and familiar to use.
Linux relies extremely heavily on reverse enginerring existing APIs and drivers for them to work on its kernel. If Nvidia or ATI release a new badass graphics card with quad Crossfire/SLI, which platform is going to be the first to enhoy the full power and benefits of that hardware?
Windows. Of course.
And let’s not forget that NDISwrapper only works for XP drivers when you need to use WLAN devices or USB sticks. Vista drivers are offering a lot of better connectivity and performance than what is being offered in the Linux kernel. (Mandriva and Ubuntu would drop my connection every 10min. That never happened on any version of Windows i had used)
Now for software. As far as im concerned, FOSS will never come close to the quality of proprietary software. People tout OpenOffice as a competitir to MS OFfice. After using both, i can declear without any reasonable doubt that MS Office blows away all the competition, INCLUDING Apple iWorks (except for Keynote). FOSS is good only for an entry level application, nothing more. I won’t trust my image editing with GIMP, which is essentially a neutered clone of Photoshop. KDE and GNOME’s offering for web designing and editing are also just plain weak when compared to the sheer might of Microsoft Expression Web or Dreamweaver. FOSS is not an alternative to everything. There are extremely clear boundaries in quality and power between both.
Simply put, Microsoft had made computing so simple up to a point that even a kid can just start yanking .exe files into any Windows computer and start installing his own application.
The fact that Microsoft force-muscled its way into the market and set up a near complete monopoly means that hardware and software developers are only required to program for 1 platform: Windows. Is there anything wrong with that? Don’t you see how beatiful and practical a one-size fits-all OS is?
Why champion other standards just for the sake of choice? Can choice EVER be more important than simplicity and uniformity? In fact, it’s because of Microsoft that building my own systems has become so easy and installing stuff is some genric and convinient. Wnt to install something? Double click .exe and proceed. Why should i even have to bother with conflicting formats in linux like GTK and qt incompatibilities, .rpm, .deb incompatibilities between distros? Is that what you call the power of choice? The choice and freedom to be hampered down by the arnarchy that Linux is championing?
Linux calls from total software freefom (libre). And to this i say: there is no freedom without governance.
Ill refer you to my reply above which is out of sync which I typed last night and continue this discussion now.
Quote “…software developers are only required to program for 1 platform: Windows. Is there anything wrong with that?”
Probably not, but then that doesnt really represent the Windows platform does it? Lets not forget Vista incompatibilities and who here has not had to fiddle around with scripts, patches and addons/fixes when trying to install the latest games. Doubt me? Take a look at the forums of any new game release to see the plethora of problems Windows users experience.
For me your argument lends more towards the adoption of a Mac system where hardware and software is provided from one Company. Your advantages of a One OS World would be great if Windows had achieved it. IMO it hasnt.
Quote “linux like GTK and qt incompatibilities, .rpm, .deb incompatibilities between distros?”
Ill briefly touch on this now since my article on this goes into some detail. This is a typical misconception of Linux, either perpetrated by people who legitimately dont know any better or by those who seek to cheapen like to promote proprietary. All Ill say for the minute is this. Take a recent Linux game project “Eternal Lands” let see, you download the zip, unzip it, and run it. Not really as complex as you make out. Want a new package? Package manager makes it far easier than having to do a google for a package that might be suitable and risk the security of your Windows install when you install something from a 3rd party site. There have been calls for Windows to adopt the same package management system as Linux, so before you start highlighting what you have heard, I suggest you read what people actually think about it. In addition Linux users do not have to clean their registry (since we dont have one) and theres certainly no worry with any “little pieces” of un-installed code bogging down your system like in Windows. Ill cover this issue further in the article here.
Quote “There are extremely clear boundaries in quality and power between both.”
Completely agree, XP was a solid system, and Ive said before, personally Id rather have XP on a laptop than use a Mac. That being said, Linux users dont need a firewall, dont need a virus checker, dont need to defrag, dont need to clean a non-existant registry nor do they need worry about wiping the whole installation clean and trying something else (a complete Linux install can be done in around 30 mins)
The quality and power advantages (IMO) of Linux over Windows are clear in the fact that Microsoft has to wave its patent portfolio around in order to try and get compliance. If Linux was the poorer system that was no threat, why would MS bother? Afterall they allowed a whole nation to pirate their own software for many years(IMO)
Again, my article covers much of your FUD, but I did have to mention your comment of “I wont trust my image editing with GIMP,”
You talk about trust? Lets start with Zune, I wonder how many jukebox responsibilities were “trusted” to Zune on newyears eve, only to let people down?
Trust? What happen to the RAF when they found a Windows exploit had breached their security and was sending “something” to Russia?
Trust? What about the Royal Navy comms system that was brought down by another Windows exploit, or the fact that in recent weeks both the French and German armed forces have also had security issues with Windows.
Trust? The allegations and court cases where Microsoft has used underhanded tactics to promote its products? The allegations of fake bloggers, free laptops (Ive already exposed one) and opinion bought by those at Redmond?
Comes V Microsoft case and the exhibits that are publically available?
Trust? The Vista ready issue? – I could go on, but Ill leave further examples for the article.
Trust is a road IMO pro-MS opinion does not want to go down, and since I was talking about an OS and not a 3rd party piece of software (Gimp) then I fail to see why you bring it up. Youve again highlighted the benefit of Wine, and how if you have a favorite Windows binary you need not give it up purely because you use Linux. Just to clarify, since we are talking Linux, Gimp is available on a Windows platform aswell, and since its a very popular package (check google yourself) I am very interested for you to tell us what issues of trust you have with it.
Trust? Very bad choice of word (IMO) if you are trying to champion Microsoft products…funnily enough “anti-trust” is something the EU is currently tackling Microsoft with, and the case of IE (IMO) is set to be a starting point for many other tackles of MS products.
I bet Microsoft now wishes they had played nicely with others from the start, it seems to me that now, any other company who wants to promote their products is wanting to jump in and take a shot at Microsoft.
What about poor Novell? Do they look at Red Hat and wonder what sort of deal they should have got?
I wonder if Novell gazes longingly at Canonical and thinks what might have been had they not caved into a patent threat from Microsoft.
That fact that i have to even start HUNTING for bloody drivers just to use in Linux is already bad enough.
WLAN usb stick not recognized. Graphics card not recognized let alone dual CrossfireX. Cannot even detect my friggin screen properly. Botting into a CLI.
Is THAT what you call a system that just WORKS?
Windows is everything that i can ask for. Insert DVD, install, boom. system up and running complete with every single hardware working perfectly.
All in a cheap $300 DIY PC. If i have to spend MORE money just to get doggone Linux compatible hardware, then thats total and utter crap about an OS that just works.
All that talk about 200X being the yar of the Linux desktop.
yeah, YOTLD for the geeks and the freaks who enjoy toying with a system that just breaks every single hardware that is thrown at it.
I’ll just continuing doing my assignments and my stuff on my Windows Vista machine, which runs faster than XP on a Pentium 3 with 1GB of ram. and be much mor productive than hunting for drivers or editing some files just to get xorg.conf to display SOMETHING that resembles a GUI on that screen.
The only 1 thing i agree with is that the era of Microsoft dominance will be over.
In another 20 years, that is.
Until Linux developers learn that Windows users prize the availability of OFFICIAL hardware drivers from a hardware manufacturer as their top priority for an OS, Linux will never gain ground/
And you can thank the idealistic community for insisting that manufacturers open up their driver specifications instead of accepting binary blobs. Ballmer was really correct when he described open source as a cancer.
If i had a kickass software which can fetch me loads of money in the market, why the heck should i jeopadize my income when i can use it to make myself rich instead of giving it AWAY ti the FOSS community?
if the FOSS community really pizes open source as their goal i challenge them to:
- browse the net WITHOUT Flash. Flash is not open source. Go ahead, stop using Flash.
- Stop using MP3s. MP3 codecs are proprietary licences.
- Come up with SOMETHING different. OpenOffice is a total clone of MS Office and GIMP is a total clone of Photoshop. If Open Source prides itself so much on creativity and innovation, make SOMETHING that totally blows Photoshop and Office out of the competition. Don’t make DERIVATIVE works.
- Don’t reverse engineer existing APIs and drivers. Write the whole driver and API from ground up.
OK it seems like youve gotten a little angry. I dont know why since I thought this was a discussion.
Lets break down your post(s)
Quote “That fact that i have to even start HUNTING for bloody drivers just to use in Linux is already bad enough.”
I take it then that you never read about the numerous Vista incompat issues that required work arounds and users doing exactly what you say you hate doing.
The next bit of your post is so silly I feel a little silly myself responding to it.
Quote “WLAN usb stick not recognized. Graphics card not recognized let alone dual CrossfireX. Cannot even detect my friggin screen properly. Botting into a CLI.
Is THAT what you call a system that just WORKS?”
So youre basing your opinion of all Linux distros on YOUR experiences of particular types of hardware. Ok. What distro were you using? and the question is asked, if you are so happy with Windows (as you suggest) what made you want to try whatever Linux distro you are claiming doesnt work for you?
Quote “All that talk about 200X being the yar of the Linux desktop.”
Ive never said that, and I am as dubious of that statement as you are. Maybe you could answer though why over the last year or so more people have moved away from Microsoft products than ever before? Are you suggesting that people all over the world have taken leave of their senses and using “inferior” alternatives just for the sake of it? Id love to hear why you think people are shifting away from MS.
Quote “The only 1 thing i agree with is that the era of Microsoft dominance will be over.
In another 20 years, that is. ”
What on earth do you base that fact on? Is 20 years the time it takes the EU to plow through numerous anti-trust implications? or is that the time it will take for people to finally realize they cant secure their Windows platform?
Quote “Until Linux developers learn that Windows users prize the availability of OFFICIAL hardware drivers from a hardware manufacturer as their top priority for an OS, Linux will never gain ground”
Are you even reading or thinking about what you type? Unless im wrong official drivers are the remit of the owners of the hardware they are coded for. What on earth does that have to do with a Linux developer, and at the end of the day, these “official drivers” you mention are an issue you need to take up with them, not Linux.
Id suggest you do you research a little first, and maybe consider that the plethora of 3rd party drivers that are currently chugging around your Windows platform, may be a reason for the performance and security issues you experience as one.
Quote “browse the net WITHOUT Flash. Flash is not open source. Go ahead, stop using Flash.”
Eh? Are you having some joke that Im not getting? I highlighted the fact that people having choice was a good thing, I was not suggesting a completely FOSS adoption, and the beauty of Linux is that we have the flexibility to choose (if you had read my post properly you would have seen that is why I highlighted Wine. Why shouldnt people run proprietary and open source together and have the best of both worlds?
I thought we were talking about Operating systems, and just like Windows users may run a Linux distro via VMware, Linux users may choose to run Windows binaries via Wine. Its called freedom of choice, its a wonderful thing.
The MP3 issue again is on the assumption that Linux users and users of FOSS want everyone to be 100% FOSS. Completely untrue, the general opinion I find is to use the right tools for the right job.
Funny you should mention MP3 though, since OGG is increasing in popularity and we have already seen a proprietary codec shunned in favour of an open one (do I need to remind you about DIVX & XVID)
Im not quite sure what you are implying when you keep mentioning your reverse engineering. Are you suggesting that Wine is some convoluted reverse engineered Microsoft code? Come on, give us a break, IMO the reason why it can get better performance out of Windows software than Windows is because IT DOESNT use any Microsoft code.
I thought you didnt like Gimp? You then say:
OpenOffice is a total clone of MS Office and GIMP is a total clone of Photoshop.
Well thats good isnt it? Users can now have the same functionality without having to pay proprietary prices. Whats your problem,?
This is completely untrue statement, and the nice thing being is that users can use for themselves both Gimp and Openoffice completely free.
Please drop this whole FOSS idea that Linux users want 100% FOSS. We dont, we want the best tools for the job. IMO that is Linux, and a multitude of other packages that I choose again, because they are best for me.
Quote “YOTLD for the geeks and the freaks who enjoy toying with a system that just breaks every single hardware that is thrown at it.”
So here the insults start, I would like people reading this (if they have time) to take a look at Microsoft Watch and see what happens when a pro MS opinion runs short of argument. Next will be the comment of “why dont you get a girlfriend” or “get out of your parents basement” If it wasnt so predictable, it would be funny. I would challenge you to explain what you mean by breaking hardware. I think the NeoWin site (a pro MS site) would disagree with you for starters since they and the vast majority of servers of running Red Hat Linux! I dont see them complaining anythings getting broken. Please keep your silly comments to yourself.
and finally I like to end on this little corker of yours:
Quote “Windows is everything that i can ask for. Insert DVD, install, boom. system up and running complete with every single hardware working perfectly.”
Youve described an over the counter PC purchase very well there (and something I believe the EU will be looking at next)
However, try installing Vista from scratch. I can have a complete Linux installation up and running with all codecs, dvd, internet, printers, in under 1 hour.
Tell me, how long would Vista take to install?
For everyone else who is reading this users FUD, just like in Windows if your media player comes across a format it doesnt have a driver for it simply prompts you and asks if you wish to download it. Nothing more complicated. Windows does NOT natively support all media files that you may require and unless Im mistaken the popular Xvid codec isnt natively present in a standard Windows installation.
Theres so much to challenge in your badly thought out post “Windows 7 user” but I will leave it there and wait for the predictable reply. I am sincerely looking forward to you allowing me to highlight more myths that those with proprietary blinkers like to quote and its posts like yours that help to inform others that the best solution does not need to mean a Microsoft one.
** What I would say to all readers is please, if you are interested in these topics, do your own research. Do not take the word of any one poster on the Net (including me) With the packages I have mentioned above not going to cost you anything, there really is no risk in trying for yourself. Most of you are probably already on the path of alternatives to Microsoft by using Firefox. Thats one example which shows, it doesnt have to be Microsoft that provides you with a solution **
You’re the one missing the point, not me.
“I take it then that you never read about the numerous Vista incompat issues that required work arounds and users doing exactly what you say you hate doing.
”
I read enough to know how false they are. My legacy Cannon scanner i bought a decade ago can install successfully in Vista and Windows 7. Download driver, right click –> Compatibility mode –> Win 98 –> Install. Everything works.
My WLAN sticks: even better. Take out Win 2000 driver, insert driver CD in Vista,install. WLAN up and running. Problem solved.
Dual CrossfireX: installed Catalyst (XP version) into Vista and Windows 7. Windows accepts the drivers and proceeds with driver installation. Everything working.
10 year old ViewSonic CRT 19″ monitor: Plug and play. Windows automatically recognizes and displays all acceptable resolutions (2400 x 2000) even without installing Catalyst. Linux? 800 x 600. Must edit xorg.conf. Bollocks kind of auto detection that Linux champions.
Samsung ML-1610 printer: insert printer usb into PC, direct Windows to printer driver DLL on CD. Job done.
I can continue for much longer.
“What distro were you using? and the question is asked, if you are so happy with Windows (as you suggest) what made you want to try whatever Linux distro you are claiming doesnt work for you?”
Be surprised.
- Ubuntu Hardy
- Ubuntu Intrepid
- Ubuntu Jaunty Alpha 3
- OpenSUSE 11.1
- Mandriva 2009
- Fedora 10.
Im not dumb enough to just hook myself into 1 distribution. If something does not work, i try out another distro. And so on and so forth UNTIL i give up. With 6 distros all providing the same problem (booting into a CLI, unable to detect monitor), tell me if im supposed to be impressed with Linux.
At LEAST OPenSUSE has SaX2 to assist in creating a workable GUI environment. If anything, Novell’s agreement with MS is a good thing. Can you see any SaX2 equivalent in the other 5 distros listed?
WLAN has always been and is STILL always a niggle i had to deal with. Im sick of trying out so-and-so distribution with so-and-so kernel that claims to offer better WLAN support/display suport/autodetect suport when my devices are not even picked up in the first place.
“What on earth do you base that fact on? Is 20 years the time it takes the EU to plow through numerous anti-trust implications? or is that the time it will take for people to finally realize they cant secure their Windows platform?”
20 years is the time i give Linux to finally get up on par with Windows for having the same kind of hardware support that Windows already have, and to get rid of the CLI for end-users. OS X can do that, why can’t Linux?
” plethora of 3rd party drivers that are currently chugging around your Windows platform, may be a reason for the performance and security issues you experience as one.”
Stability issues? I never ever had:
- a BSOD
- a registry error
- or even a crash
since Windows 2000. And if anything, the fact that official drivers are provided by hardware manufcturers gives the biggest sense of comfort ever. Why should i trust the hacker community for drivers when i can get a stable one from the manufacturer? And i’m sure a LOT of hardware manufacturers would be happy to provide Linux drivers if the whoel Linux ideology wasn’t so anal about binary blobs and EOL.
“Well thats good isnt it? Users can now have the same functionality without having to pay proprietary prices. Whats your problem,?”
The PROBLEM is that Open Source seeks to kill originality. If the open source community was so innovative, why didnt they come out with something like that in the first place? Someone out there had the brains to create a good software/much needed software that served a broad range of needs, marketed it, and became rich and will defend his source of income. This is the way of software business. This industry is NOT a charity for letting people steal original software.
Software was never free-for-all in the public domain. Whoever comes up with it first and implements and markets it first gets the rights. How would YOU like it if you are the boss of Company A that makes this wonderful must-have Software B and the hackers decide to clone your product because they are too stingy to pay the price?
“Youve described an over the counter PC purchase very well there (and something I believe the EU will be looking at next)
However, try installing Vista from scratch. I can have a complete Linux installation up and running with all codecs, dvd, internet, printers, in under 1 hour.
Tell me, how long would Vista take to install?”
Since when did i ever discribe an ‘over-the counter’ PC? Stop intrepreting everything in the limitted Linux mindset that a working PC = bundled with Windows from the OEM.
I built my whole PC from scratch with the following parts:
- Intel Celeron Dual Core E1200 D2 stepping
- Hitachi Deskstar 160GB HDD
- Biostar 945GC-M7-TE mATX mobo
- 1GB Kingston DDR2 667GHz SDRAM
- ASUS 4X DVD+RW drive x2
- ATI Radeon HD 3200 by XPertVision
- ATI Radeon HD 3470 by XPertVision
Over the counter PC? This system KILLS most over the counter PC at a much slower PRICE. And there was NO pre-installed Windows. Every installation of Windows was from a clean (repeat: CLEAN) retail DVD of Vista Business.
Installing the core Windows files : 40min from retail DVD (WLAN drivers slipstreamed into installation with WLAN driver CD in 2nd optical drive)
Installing graphics drivers: 9min.
Windows Update: 17min
Reboot: 1min.
Total time taken: 1hr 20min. (and if i choose NOT to perform Windows update, that’s an additional 17min saved.)
How long does it take for a clean install of Vista? This short. Considering a friggin Celeron and 1GB of RAM, and Vista. Still Flies. Every single application starts up instantly.
Why did i try Linux?
Because i believe that its not enough to know how to use just ONE OS today.
And i have used OS X for 4 years. Sick of it because it just refuses to let you install it into generic boxes. I take pride in building my own rigs. And that will never change.
So what else was there? Linux. And this was not the first time i experimented with Linux: my hate affair started way back in 1998, where i was fiddling with Red Hat, Has Linux improved over the decade? Definitely. Is it ready for an end user? Hell no. Why? Because end-users do not WANT, or WISH, to even see the CLI in their entire lifetime.
Im comfortable with editing xorg.conf, but compilling applications and packages from source? If i cannot do it, do you think an end-user will even bother? Just because a CLI is useful, doe it mean that people have to be forced into using the CLI for tasks?
And why is it that, even if the new linux kernel 2,6,28,which claims to offer so much better support for WLAN, my adaptors are still not showing up? Why is it that i am still forced to resort to Terminal and NDISwrapper?
Allow me to add that no typical end user even knows what is xorg.conf if you were to throw a new Linux box to the typical user who has known everything to be GUI oriented. No GUI, improper resolution, no WLAN = will not touch.
One last thing:
the EU case is total nonsense.
Claiming to help stop protectionism/unfair practices?? Maybe those EU ‘social elites’ should examine what their whole bloody bloc/cartel is doing first before lashing out on other corporations.
EU is trying to fine and bankrupt Microsoft out of the market. It’s plain obvious.
Im sorry, I clicked the wrong reply button. My response to this is posted with the time stamp “March 4, 2009 at 3:27 am”
Sorry for any confusion.
The sales figures for Nintendo WII destroyed that of 360 very quickly on release, ebay was knocking them out at many times the RRP and there wasnt enough units to meet demand. 360 has had issues with its hardware, I do not believe Microsoft has made money on the system. WIIs are still selling, 360 is available at many stores with a heavy discount. – These are not off the top of my head facts, this is the reality, and I challenge anyone to show me a site that reports that Microsoft has in anyway been viable competition to Nintendo.
The argument of the WII being a different market is wrong. Its obviously the right market since its sold more, and if Microsoft is trying to suggest 360 is aimed at more niche market, then I dont think shareholders would be very happy since that niche market has also returned alot of the 360s that were faulty.
Quote “I would not include Wii in the same console war.”
Lets be honest, Microsoft (like any other company) released the 360 to make money, it lost out to WII. Its a games console for entertainment and unless Im mistaken the one unit that doesnt belong in the “console war” would be the PS3 which is equipted as a home entertainment package to handle the accepted BluRay standard.
Anyway, Im sure this blog isnt a place for gaming issues, but on this matter Id like you to consider that Microsoft couldnt even push its HDdvd format, and lost that to Sonys BluRay.
Quote “But eventually users may have to shift to Windows 7 due to discontinued Microsoft support and software support. There is DX11 on Vista and Win7 for the gamers.”
Fair point, but they dont do they? Weve already established that in most cases consoles are catering for the gaming market, couple that with the piracy issue, the need for ever increasing specs and you can see why gaming on the PC is not as desirable as it once was. Id suggest that users dont have to consider upgrading because their systems are not being supported, and maybe for this reason we have welcomed more people into alternative platforms.
Afterall if they go with MAC they get a complete hardware/software solution and if they go with Linux they get all the upgrades and software they want, free of charge and with Wine (IMO) a better backwards comp experience than Vista.
Lets look at the DX11 issue, as I say above, since gaming is becoming less of a actuality on a PC, really the only people who I know who may be interested would be demosceners, however being part of the small (but growing) Linux demoscene, I dont think this will be the case much longer.
I would not like to knock anyones choices in software since the tools people feel comfortable with are the ones that are best, that being said any tech enthusiast should make it a priority to try as many alternatives as they can, so that their opinions can be truly accurate (IMO)
I have a slight advantage in that I develop software on Vista/XP platforms at work and have Linux systems at home, my wife has a Mac and I am currently putting through the paces AROS (an AmigaOS replacement) and FreeBSD, I consider myself pretty much experienced in the mainstream platforms and am amazed how people are blindly buying into the fact that if your machine doesnt have Windows on it, its somehow inferior (thats not you by the way)
The question I ask you now (and I respect your previous honesty) is why are you not considering an alternative to Windows? I dont just mean Linux, I mean any alternative.
Why did you only use Ubuntu for 2 days? and what requirements do you have that makes Windows 7 for you such a “must have” purchase?
Thanks for englightening me on your thoughts about the console war, I have never thought about it that way and I would suppose that Microsoft did intend to go against the Wii coming into the competition.
Quote: I would not like to knock anyones choices in software since the tools people feel comfortable with are the ones that are best, that being said any tech enthusiast should make it a priority to try as many alternatives as they can, so that their opinions can be truly accurate (IMO)
That is true, I regret not having an opportunity to use the Mac and not learning more abou Linux.
Quote:
The question I ask you now (and I respect your previous honesty) is why are you not considering an alternative to Windows? I dont just mean Linux, I mean any alternative.
I have considered Ubuntu in the past. The complication (or my lack of knowledge) in dealing with the Grub Loader, Terminal, and unsupported drivers forced me to go back to Windows. I also wasn’t necessarily “not busy” at the time.
Why I haven’t gone back? As bad as this sounds, it is because Windows can already do everything that I want and can. First and foremost is games. I game once or twice a week. Apps like Office and Photoshop are only available on Windows. However, I was not yet aware until recently that there are ways to run Windows apps natively (or virtually not too sure) in Linux.
Also, the amount of time it takes to learn Linux was discouraging too. I didn’t want to deal with unsupported drivers and learn all these fancy sudo commands.
But having heard about Linux’s ability to do greater things that I can imagine with Windows, I am considering getting Ubuntu on my machine again when I have time.
Quote: What requirements do you have that makes Windows 7 for you such a must have purchase?
I cannot give specific requirements but off the top of my head, there are several issues that I think Windows should address in its next upcoming OS in order to make it “worth upgrading.”
1) Security: This will probably be #1 in every Windows OS. UAC will be great now that they’ve got it right in Windows 7. I’m sure changes in the security scene will prompt for new security improvements and changes in Windows 8. The question is whether Microsoft is ready or will address them.
2) New way of dealing with files: Again, I am interested in tech topics and such but when it comes to in depth details, I am not too familiar. But I think the way Windows deals with files is outdated. (This could be related with the filesystem?) With today’s increasing hard drive spaces and file numbers, Microsoft should come up with a better way to store and search files. Libraries was a good step but not too revolutionary.
Ok, I realized I kind of got carried away but the requirement of a “must-have” OS would be a change in usability to make life on the computer more efficient, and probably easier. What about you? What do you think are the requirements to make Windows a must-have purchase.
Firstly I dont want to draw question on your experiences, however they read more like points people read and not what is actually experienced. If I may I will take them one at a time.
Quote “I have considered Ubuntu in the past. The complication (or my lack of knowledge) in dealing with the Grub Loader, Terminal, and unsupported drivers forced me to go back to Windows. I also wasnt necessarily not busy at the time.”
I have installed many Linux distros for people, my most recent one being Ubuntu 8.10 2 days ago (I even mentioned it on twitter) It took 50 minutes to have the system running and online.
The Grub loader? What issues? Ubuntu is one of many distros that will install itself alongside an existing OS (if you wish) and sort out all of the booting/boot menu issues, at install time via a graphical chart, you can allocate how much space to be dedicated to Ubuntu, theres no commands to enter and the only typing is when you are entering your chosen username.
Unsupported drivers? From what Ive read from Vista users and from experience, they are pretty much on an even par, and since most drivers for mainstream hardware come packed with the Linux Kernal, chances are you wont even need to consider a driver issue.
What hardware were you trying to install?
In respect of Terminal, I dont believe there are more than a handful of times you would ever have to use it, and even if on the rare occasion you do, theres plenty of help in forums to allow you to copy and paste the commands in. I would go on record here by saying with a distro like Mint/Ubuntu or similar you could be quite happy never having entered a single command in terminal.
Again, can I stress I do not seek to cheapen your views, there yours and I find this debate one of the very few where it remains polite and interesting.
You mention the following as a reason to upgrade:
Security – Your reasons to me sound more for a justification for replacement of an OS not an upgrade of it. Windows 7 is not a tight secure system like Linux, even the mainstream press is saying this. Although you admit your knowledge of other OS is limited, even you should know not to go down this road when talking about a Windows platform. Security and Windows is such a well known issue even the official MS shills try to avoid this issue.
New way of dealing with files – Again, a very good reason for shifting away from Windows not staying with it. Try defragmenting your harddisk with Linux, you cant? Because, (and I wont bore you with why) it doesnt need defragmenting. It doesnt have a registry either, so, unlike Windows your system doesnt get bogged down with software entries you thought you un-installed.
This is not condemning any of your views, but when listening to anyone who has only used Windows, the responses given for not changing are textbook Microsoft FUD. This, IMO is probably why Microsoft has not suffered total loss with Vista.
I ask you and/or your readers to think about the last time they had a problem with Windows, certainly talking with others I get the “it must be my fault, I must have done something wrong” and I think we have a large group of users thinking Windows isnt performing to their expectation because of something they have done, not because of flaws in the software. IMO Microsoft likes to encourage this, since when users are blaming themselves they cant blame Microsoft, and will continue to upgrade and purchase in an effort to rectify the problem.
Talking of how its always everyones fault but Microsoft, please dont take my word for it. Do a Google search of “Microsoft blames” and then come back here and tell me that Microsoft does not appear to like being responsible for anything.
Great debating with you.
I am interested as to why you think I should not go down the road and talk about security and Windows?
It is something Microsoft does want to avoid because it is one thing it seems that they cannot keep up with in terms of improvement. Vulnerabilities and holes are constantly found in Windows and IE. But still, I believe Microsoft should have some sort of a major security feature or implementation in each succeeding version. For example (if I remember correctly), XP introduced Windows Firewall, and Vista introduced UAC. I think this is a valid reason for wanting to upgrade for others.
For the files, it makes sense that you think it sounds like a justification to shift towards a new OS. This and the registry have virtually been unchanged for almost a decade now.
I am interested as to what requirements do you have that makes Windows 7 for you such a must have purchase?
Im sorry my replies are out of sync. Since youve allowed me to write an article for your site, ill cover the many issues raised there. In answer to what makes Windows 7 a “must have” Ill briefly answer now.
Obviously for me being out of the loop of Microsoft products at home, Windows 7 is most certainly not a “must have” having said that I think the one thing about using an alternative to Windows gives you is an open mind.
I am not entrenched in some sort of wierd open source lifestyle, where we bake our own bread, grow our own veg and live a self sufficient lifestyle, I use the best tools for the jobs I require, in the future that may change from Linux to Windows to Mac, who knows?
Many people get caught up in the fact that Linux is free, whilst I see this as an added bonus, its not the reason for anyone using it, afterall a package that doesnt perform as you expect is no good, free or not.
I will be purchasing Windows 7 when it is released, I will also be using it extensively and when I make my comments on it, they will be from my experiences in comparison to what Im using at the moment. Who knows? it may be I find Windows 7 the greatest OS ever. If thats the case you will certainly be seeing me champion it.
Of course there are a large group of users who have no choice. They will not be privy to the many discussion boards and topics on the subject. The first time they experience Windows7 will be when it comes bundled on the new PC they bought. They will probably spend their computing lives not even considering that there is anything else. It is for this reason the alternatives view needs to be known. Of course there will be people who hate Linux, there will be people who cant get Linux to function properly, and there will be people who dont want to waste their time learning something new. Thats fine with me, as long as they are aware they have a choice, on the reverse side there will be people who prefer Linux and/or alternatives, those users may not have even given an alternative a try if it was not for reading differing opinion on the net.
If you were to pin me down to give a reason why Windows 7 is seen as a “must have” purchase for some, id say Windows 7 is appearing to offer some of the benefits of an OS that both Linux and mac users already enjoy. Its funny when looking at the “special effects” touted by Windows Vista and 7, anyone who has used Linux would tell you we have had those features via Compiz for quite a while and are nothing new to us.
[...] is not the case this time on windows7center.com I must admit that when the question “What is FOSS?” was asked, I did think “here [...]
Espero que esta version Windows 7 RC sea tan buena como las primeras betas y que podamos disfurtar de un sistema operativo sin errores y sin frizarce y que responda a las necesidades del usuario
Since its very late here, I will have a shorter response to you, with another tomorrow.
Quote “Ths thing is, if you need to get Windows APIs just to g ame on Linux, then it just defeats the purpose of wanting to move to another OS.”
Wine is a replacement API to allow seamless integration of a Windows runtime in Linux. Once installed Windows software runs as if it were native Linux. It doesnt defeat the object since there may well be applications that are available only as a Windows binary and if you think the better performance of many DX titles through Wine “defeats the object” then perhaps you havent investigated exactly what advantages there are in running a Win binary through Linux.
Quote”
- has drivers immediately ready for their hardware.
- has a whole list of software that is available for the platform
- hassle free and simple and familiar to use.”
Youve just described Linux, I thought you were talking about Windows?
Quote “FOSS is not an alternative to everything. ”
Exactly right, and I think youve challenged your own point about Wine earlier on and thus justifies its existance.
Quote “s there anything wrong with that? Dont you see how beatiful and practical a one-size fits-all OS is? ”
Yep, one OS, one monopoly, no innovation and users at the whim of one company. So what do people do if Vista was the only option? Like it and lump it as they say over here.
Maybe this is why the EU and anti-trust legislation is stepping in? Users are already voting with their feet with IE, and its purely the fact that innovation is allowed to thrive that we have a FF alternative at all. A one product IT world would give no such choices.
Quote “Why champion other standards just for the sake of choice? ”
Very good question, and the simple answer is I wouldnt. I use the tools that are best suited to me. That happens to be Linux, but championing choice is championing innovation.
Quote “Double click .exe and proceed. Why should i even have to bother with conflicting formats in linux like GTK and qt incompatibilities, .rpm, .deb incompatibilities between distros?”
FUD – Ubuntu (the most popular Linux distro at the moment) for example has package manager which makes installing software a case of searching an offline library and ticking the boxes of the software you want to install. Ill tackle the rest of this subject tomorrow.
Quote “. If Nvidia or ATI release a new badass graphics card with quad Crossfire/SLI, which platform is going to be the first to enhoy the full power and benefits of that hardware?”
Quite true, but then the driving force for most upgrades is IMO the user trying to get a Windows platform running at a reasonable pace. Linux has no such issues and even old hardware can run Compiz with fx (IMO) far exceeding that of Vista/7. Since I believe its established that the games market on the PC is not what it was and the home consoles replacing the need to upgrade your PC to play the latest games, I think that is a moot point, and really becoming only relevant to developers who require the latest cards for software dev.
Like I say Ill continue this on tuesday. In the meantime the article promised for this site is nearly finished and will be addressing many of the points you make in further detail.
That fact that i have to even start HUNTING for bloody drivers just to use in Linux is already bad enough.
WLAN usb stick not recognized. Graphics card not recognized let alone dual CrossfireX. Cannot even detect my friggin screen properly. Botting into a CLI.
Is THAT what you call a system that just WORKS?
Windows is everything that i can ask for. Insert DVD, install, boom. system up and running complete with every single hardware working perfectly.
That fact that i have to even start HUNTING for bloody drivers just to use in Linux is already bad enough.
WLAN usb stick not recognized. Graphics card not recognized let alone dual CrossfireX. Cannot even detect my friggin screen properly. Botting into a CLI.
Is THAT what you call a system that just WORKS?
Windows is everything that i can ask for. Insert DVD, install, boom. system up and running complete with every single hardware working perfectly.
All in a cheap $300 DIY PC. If i have to spend MORE money just to get doggone ‘Linux compatible’ hardware, then that’s total and utter crap about an OS that just works.
[...] Rumor: Windows 7 RC Build to be released publicly April 10, 2009 Recent rumors about the beginning of development into the… [...]
Why did i try Linux?
Because i believe that it’s not enough to know how to use just ONE OS today.
And i have used OS X for 4 years. Sick of it because it just refuses to let you install it into generic boxes. I take pride in building my own rigs. And that will never change.
So what else was there? Linux. And this was not the first time i experimented with Linux: my hate affair started way back in 1998, where i was fiddling with Red Hat, Has Linux improved over the decade? Definitely. Is it ready for an ‘end user’? Hell no. Why? Because end-users do not WANT, or WISH, to even see the CLI in their entire lifetime.
Im comfortable with editing xorg.conf, but compilling applications and packages from source? If i cannot do it, do you think an end-user will even bother? Just because a CLI is useful, doe it mean that people have to be forced into using the CLI for tasks?
And why is it that, even if the new linux kernel 2,6,28,which claims to offer so much better support for WLAN, my adaptors are still not showing up?
Quote “read enough to know how false they are. My legacy Cannon scanner i bought a decade ago can install successfully in Vista and Windows 7. Download driver, right click > Compatibility mode > Win 98 > Install. Everything works.”
Youve READ enough? Ok. I expect thats sorted. Vista doesnt like my wired Catweasel. Is this the basis for me to say its rubbish?
Again the point which you claim I missed you seem to repeat. You are judging an entire platform on your experience. You cannot claim Linux is inferior simply because you have one example, and limited Linux experience.
Quote “Bollocks kind of auto detection that Linux champions.”
Please can you kindly stop with the childish comments that belong in the playground? If I want to hear an 8 year old champion Microsoft products Ill watch one of the new Microsoft adverts.
Quote ”
“Stability issues? I never ever had:
- a BSOD
- a registry error
- or even a crash”
and to be fair neither did I (for the most part) when I was using Windows at home. But just because neither of us have, does that mean the rest of the net and the many complainers on forums are telling lies?
Quote “Since when did i ever discribe an over-the counter PC?”
I thought you were describing the experience of a pre-installed Windows setup. Since a new version of Windows will be experienced by people purchasing a new computer in the main, I believed you were implying “out of the box” compat from the WIndows plat (which of course is true)
It was simply logistics and does nothing to aid your argument so it really doesnt matter. You say Windows has “out of the box compat” right?
Ill challenge your times of a Vista install, however since I havent done a clean install of it on 2008+ hardware Ill let your figures stick and ask people who have to consider how accurate your times are.
Quote “And i have used OS X for 4 years. Sick of it because it just refuses to let you install it into generic boxes. I take pride in building my own rigs. And that will never change.”
Quote “Intel Celeron Dual Core E1200 D2 stepping”
and thats good is it? You are building your own systems (and seeming rather proudly) on the basis of this CPU? LOL. Even the machine I use at work for Masm development is better spec’d than that and I only use a command line on it. I really do not see the point you are making.
Cant comment on OSX as I dont consider myself to have had enough experience with it to make an informed opinion.
I take it then when you take pride in “building rigs” which really is a simple task, you havent kept an eye on Microsofts Christmas patent (PPV computing?), or its opinion on the cloud to know that Microsoft appears to be heading in a direction that will not be compatible with your desire to build your own machines.
Quote “Im comfortable with editing xorg.conf, but compilling applications and packages from source?”
Rubbish. I wont even answer that. I challenge any user of Ubuntu/Mint/Fedora/Mandriva to come here and claim they are compiling their packages.
Whilst your comments may be relevant to the distro I use, thats my choice and Gentoo is certainly not aimed for the new Linux user anyway.
Quote “My legacy Cannon scanner i bought a decade ago can install successfully in Vista and Windows 7. Download driver, right click > Compatibility mode > Win 98 > Install. Everything works.”
and my hardware was recognised and configured on first boot of my Linux install, it didnt ask me to do anything, didnt prompt me, it just worked. I wouldnt seek to give that example as undeniable proof of Linux “greatness” dont do the same with Windows.
Quote “the EU case is total nonsense.” Ill pass that on, but since it is happening Microsoft need to deal with it. I actually happen to agree somewhat with you in this, as the UK has seen anti-trust applied to Utility companies and the problems that created. That however is another topic and not relevant to this discussion.
Quote “EU is trying to fine and bankrupt Microsoft out of the market. Its plain obvious.”
Eh? Its trying to bankrupt Microsoft? I wouldnt think so, because if it was they could easily do that simply by imposing more restrictions and fines on MS.
If anyone here wants to see for themselves how many times you actually need to enter the CLI in Linux then why not download a liveCD of a popular distro and see for yourselves? It would also be a great chance to see if Windows 7 user “experience” is the same for you.
Finally Ill end on asking you “Windows 7 user” to consider at least answering the question I put to you about the distro you are using (and maybe consider answering some of the others)
Quote “if you were to throw a new Linux box to the typical user who has known everything to be GUI oriented”
Rubbish. Check Ubuntu.
If users (which you seem to think need to be nannyed with a GUI) are really that frightened by a text command, then I would agree with you that Windows is probably best for them. I think you do the average computer user a disservice if this is what you are suggesting since the average user IMO is far more “savvy” than they were 10 years ago.
Maybe Microsoft thinks this way? Maybe Microsoft thinks the average user is stupid and IT challenged? Maybe thats why they get children to promote their products?
Quote “because i believe that its not enough to know how to use just ONE OS today.”
So answer the question. What Linux distro did you use? We can then matchup your hardware to that distro and it will confirm what you are saying is correct? How many distros have you tried?
[...] For those interested in reading the comments of another MS Evangelist who would have you believe you need to compile your packages on Linux, check out http://windows7center.com/windows-7-news/rumor-windows-7-rc-build-to-be-released-publicly-april-10-2... [...]
[...] Rumor: Windows 7 RC Build to be released publicly April 10, 2009 Recent rumors about the beginning of development into the Windows 7 RC Branch caused… [...]
[...] Rumor: Windows 7 RC Build to be released publicly April 10, 2009 Recent rumors about the beginning of development into the Windows 7 RC Branch caused… [...]
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